SecondCast #48 – “Dirty Jew” [updated]

The SecondCasters talk about the holiday week — Walker explains why Hanukkah is like camping chairs and everyone talks about what Santa brought them. The group gets down to business and talks about the “grandparents playing Wii” phenomenon, Pontiac’s Motorati events, the launch of Grid Review, the Clay Shirkey blog post, Lordfly’s Torley hating, and Cris and Walker get into a heated debate about Plastic Duck (Gene Replacement) calling Prokofy.

Happy New Year !!

Update: Sorry if we offended anyone with the title of the episode, it was only meant as a reference to Walker’s comment.

Standard Podcast [66:38m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

This entry was posted on Friday, December 29th, 2006 at 8:49 pm and is filed under Clay Shirkey, Gaming, Plastic Duck, SecondCast, Wii, xbox. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

19 Responses to “SecondCast #48 – “Dirty Jew” [updated]”

Thunderclap says:

December 31, 2006 at 6:22 pm

My opinion of the entire Prok issue is simple. Karma is a b*tch.
Yes, what Plastic duck did was wrong. But Prok brought it on herself with her constant angry comments, stories and gripes. Some is as culpable. Her attitude is what causes the bans and other issues, so someone who is angry enough at her to hack and h=find out personal info shows that she needs to back off. And she needs to be thankful that a phonecall is all they did.
Dell Wilberg says:

January 1, 2007 at 2:57 pm

I’m a huge fan of SecondCast. That said I must say that I feel compelled to provide an alternative viewpoint on two points brought up in the latest edition of SecondCast.

The first one is rather mundane, however I think it is an important point. Regarding the statement that PDF is not a good format for magazines on or off the web I beg to differ.

As the co-publisher and designer of SLATENIGHT magazine it falls on my shoulders to deliver our SL centric magazine to the community in multiple formats. We publish in 3 formats for every issue, Web, PDF and In-world. PDF is the only format which is truly cross-platform. Fonts, links and rich media can be embedded in the PDF and look the same and print the same on each operating system. Even on the web different web sites look and function differently in different browsers sometimes to a very negative effect no matter how good the coder or designer. PDF is also the best intermediary format to create high resolution TARGA files for import in SL where they are they inserted into the in-world version of the mag.

Now that Adobe has bought MacroMedia the creators of the FLASH format which is the most widely distributed rich media playback system for web browsers I would imagine that PDF will only grow in importance as more features are added.

Although I agree that a PDF only strategy is probably not the best for Second Life I do not fault any publishers decision to publish in this format. Like you I think it best to offer as many formats as possible. In this way the reader can read the mag in-world, on the web or if they want print it out like a traditional magazine. However there is an incredible amount of work that goes into publishing a magazine and each version of the magazine requires additional work to make it look and feel right. So I can understand why some choose one format over the other.

Now on to the second point… Regarding the Prokofy Neva debacle. First and foremost I find Prokofy at different times likable, repulsive, funny, contradictory, inflammatory, etc… Above all Prok is prolific and known for the contrary viewpoint. Regardless of how you feel about the writing, writing style or methods of gaining attention for her/his work you have to acknowledge that Prok does get attention and many people do read his/her blog posts, articles, etc with amusement, alarm, and/or disgust.

Its all fine to disagree with all of the above and to write off Prok as some crazed SL fixated journalist and writer(Which is far from the case in my opinion). In regards to the recent stalking event of Prok which is well documented whether it was by who we think it is or not the facts still remain. There is no justification for using a child to gain information about someone in RL.

One of the points brought up (and argued about to your credit) was whether Prok had to acknowledge that he/she had to expect this type of action as the results of being a prolific writer who pisses people off. In other words Prok had brought this on. In addition it was offered that Prok was using this event to play the martyr.

Whooaaa! I have to disagree with you on both points. Pissing people off is a relative term. What may piss you off and me off are two different things. If I were to carefully couch my own writing in such a style that it would piss no off no one would read my work! In fact the more passionate of an opinion I have the more likely I will piss people off. I have heard some pretty strong opinions on SecondCast. The thing is I respect your right to your opinions and you made me think about what you say. That’s why I listen to you to begin with. You make me think…Kudos to SecondCast for that.

However what if I was some slightly crazy strong PDF advocate who took strong offence to your PDF bashing? (Laughs, I’m not your safe!) But the point is I could be. Then in retaliation for your negative PDF comments I begin to stalk you and use your child to do it.

Would you have then brought that on yourself? What would you be safe talking about then? Is the situation with Prok any different? How do we know what set off the stalker. Maybe it’s not Proks inflammatory writings but maybe Prok hates JPEGS…and that was the cause. (Sounds far fetched but I’m just making a point here). We just don’t really know. Not you, not me and probably not Prok. I also applaud Prok for bringing this matter out in the open as it makes us all ponder the gravity of Prok’s and our situation as writers and broadcasters. Whatever ambivalence I had about SL publishing before is now quickly dissipating…

In any case if we accept the fact that journalists, writers and anyone who offers a different viewpoint then our own is bringing RL punishment onto themselves and must expect this behavior then we are all in a heap of trouble as a virtual and RL society.

To quote Voltaire… “Je désapprouve ce que vous dites, mais je défendrai à la mort votre droit à le dire” or “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” (actually what he really said was “Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too”, which is more fitting I think.)

Also let us not forget that the degree of stalking is a factor here. It was a phone call which by itself is extremely alarming to a parent or non-parent. The subtext of this situation is that it could of been something much worse and it also involved an innocent, a child.

When do we say the degree of RL punishment is to be expected? As journalists are we to expect a RL stalker phone call for our writings? Are we to expect someone to call our child because of our viewpoints? Are we to expect someone to park their car on our street and watch us because we wrote some articles… or much worse?

No, I think not. I don’t think we can ever ask ourselves or ask others to expect this kind of behavior. If we do then we as writers will be afraid to analyze and report on anything that might create trouble for ourselves or others we care for. I think instead we have to come together as a journalistic community and support each other no matter how much we may agree or disagree with the content of our peers work.

If we don’t support each other over this issue who will?
Thunderclap says:

January 1, 2007 at 8:16 pm

There is something that I didnt even notice while I was writing the first post which I doubt you did either. I was reading Prok’s blog about her attack and got to the part where she whined about all the google witchhunting going on. So I decided to google the avatar name. Just ‘Prokofy Neva’
And I found this article in the New York Times Published: October 19, 2006. On Second Life where she was interviewed and gave not only her RL name but her RL occupation.

I personally know enough people who could use that legally to find everything else. If you are going to write inflammatory stories, constantly be aggressive, negative and such, someone will be angry enough and resourceful enough to do so. I read the Plastic Duck Second Life insider article. And I read her comments about him and what Plastic Duck did. Was it right?
But did she have to respond? NO.
She is getting the consequences of her actions. I will go so far as say that she is an internet troll and almost griefer herself.
Why? Because people who are constantly negative rarely help the situation. They bring morale down, deflate enjoyment and bring a cloud of FUD with them.
LL obviously agreed that she was a troll because her avatar was banned off the boards and the blog.
Orginally, I thought it might have been because of the hard questions asked. But Gwendolyn Llewelln asked hard questions for Cory’s Town hall and they were answered. (Not well but that isn;t the point)
Prok’s attitude is always negative. I have never read anything positive or upbeat from her. There is deep seated anger there that comes out, that frankly people are sick of. The people who is Plastic duck is the first who actually used the RL info to some extent.
Now the choice comes in. What is more important? Your RL life on this environment we use. I would hope that everyone would say their Life.

I am beginning to believe that if she isn’t silent. Someone will make her. And there will be no one to blame but her because she failed to be anonymous.
Is that right? No! It isn’t but that isn’t society we live in. Anyone who believe we are all anonymous when we log in on the net is Naive. I’m not. Johnny knows he isn’t. I could easily figure out where Torrid lived from her cute youtube video. But would I? Nah. I do know that she has a british accent and a southern one mixed together. (Or I have been watching too much Torchwood and Dr who. and am off my bleeding chair )
To wrap this ramble up, Prok can’t claim to be a martyr when she sets up everything for the burning and someone else comes along with a match.
I support the Journalism community but at times people need to be let to their own devices. Prok is one of them.
God rest her soul, she will need it.
Prokofy Neva says:

January 1, 2007 at 10:44 pm

So, let me get this straight: Plastic Duck is the bag man for the FIC, for Second Cast, or for whomever — just anybody who doesn’t happen to like what I write. It’s ok if Plastic Duck steals my personal information to spoof a grief account; it’s ok for Plastic to call me at home and stalk me in RL and even talk to my kids; it’s ok to have griefed my tenants by unleashing the tub girl particle on their houses, it’s ok to crash the grid with self-replicating dicks, etc. etc. That’s ok? Oh, so that’s how you do it? You are all thugs then. And too chicken-shit to deliver this form of retribution yourselves, apparently.

Cristiano has so lost touch with reality that he actually thinks that because I have had a long-standing and sharp critique of a short list of him and his friendsm, who formerly ruled the forums, lost a lot of their influence, and who now lick their wounds in Second Citizen, that because of his hurt pride, I “spew vitriol” and “I’m crazy” and “everyone hates me”. It’s an enormously silly and parochial view — consistent with the parochial view of Second Cast in general with its snorting and giggling and mocking of other people and events in SL not fitting in with their clique.

Plastic Duck merely glommed on to me more than a year ago because I was in a high-profile dispute with the white Nexcom tower next to my rentals, and Plastic Duck saw the moment to garner attention for himself by putting up a giant black tower. All I have done is reported on and described PD’s and his pals in W-Hat’s griefing activities — things like building the World Trade Center with the sickly motif of “I’m Falling for You” (an avatar came and whacked me over the head with this and also crashed a plane into my event playing a fake Islamic fundamentalist) or creating installations with dead chopped up bloody furries (something he and his pals would leave on my properties as well). Lovely stuff like that. I merely reported on this in the Herald and the blog — but I also took the position that this wasn’t just a few bad eggs, but the whole carton of W-Hat, heavily sustained by their apologists in SL in groups like libsecondlife — which they join — and oldbies enjoying protection from the Lindens.

This enraged them — I was speaking the truth and was unfazed by their antics — and they kept escalating their griefing of me, trying to intimidate me. They subjected me and my tenants to horrific griefing — and by the way, not only me, but other groups like Craig Kamenev’s Positive Mental Health. And, aside from that, the main thing they did was crash the grid. The Lindens banned them for *cause* based on their own documentation server-side, not because of any abuse-report from me, which could only be partial in its information.

Plastic Duck has spewed such a huge word-salad and gaslighting manipulation on SC, that Cristiano may actuallly hallucinate now and believe PD is some kind of victim of *my* stalking which is hilarious. Even Walker thinks Plastic Duck is now “Everygridcrasher” when in fact he IS behind most of the planned and executed crashes, which all have laughably similar M.O.s.

I reported on someone crashing the grid. I saw someone griefing Anshe’s land with giant penises a year ago. I reported it. For that my RL picture was put into SL and defaced constantly in numerous sick ways. That’s still called “disclosure” in the TOS.

Many people commenting on this think they have some triumphant “gotcha” and cry “hyprokofy” merely because they find my RL name and avatar in the New York Times in 2006. Hello? Why is that linked *now*? Because it was linked in the Herald *against my will, not with information I made public, by people who stalked me way back in 2003, and then circulated by Nolan Nash*. I didn’t deliberately supply information in any way, shape or form link my avatar and RL name. If it is linked now easily, it’s because I didn’t chose to try to give aid and comfort to stalkers and blackmailers by keeping it hidden.

If Barnesworth Anubis accidently got a RL email address looked it up and passed it around so that Nolan Nash could then ultimately “out me”, well, that’s how it works in SL, people are vindictive. It was only in self-defense that I decided the best thing to do would be to go to SLCC and link my names so that no one would EVER think they can blackmail me, harass me, stalk me, and make me change my writing.

I will not be changing one damn thing about what I do or think or write in or around Second Life. Because I am not doing anything wrong. I don’t need to reflect on *shit* Cristiano, the world doesn’t live cringing and ducking and bowing and scraping to the powers that be as you seem to think it should. I don’t place my children’s safety below my writing, that is absurd. I expect to fight injustice in RL and in SL so that my children have a world worth living in and hope I teach them to do the same thing. A world in which it’s ok for someone like Plastic Duck who crashes the entire grid and harms all of Second Life to call my child up and pump information out of her is not a world any of us should want to live in. Yet that’s the world you are endorsing. You seem to have completely fallen, hook, line and sinker for Plastic’s Leninist tactic of distracting from his original terroristic acts of grid-crashing by shining the light on an attack against a noted “infamous antagonist”.

Calling people at home against their will with information you’ve dug up by witch-hunting is morally wrong, and it is a form of harassment. There’s no legal test as everyone imagines that says “oh, only one phone call, and that doesn’t count.” This call has to be seen in a whole context — a context the entire caste of Second Cast can’t seem to see — of an individual who is crashing the grid regularly, is the subject of official communications from Linden Lab to the Canadian media; is evidently the subject of a FBI investigation already for such actions; is regularly reported as griefing a wide range of people in SL in a wide range of ways, and most recently even added identity theft to his range of criminal acts. These things are wrong. You may seek to justify away any one of them. But the list is so long now you really can’t jump over it in this way and say it’s somehow “ok” for an individual with this long a list of offenses to get off the hook for his criminal activities by attacking someone you don’t like.

What makes it possible for people like Plastic Duck to thrive is the justification of his bad behaviour by you all, and the excuses given, and even the use of his bad behaviour by proxy, by remoted control, to settle scores you think need settling. Cristiano is hard put to name an actual action or writing of mine that would “justify” an actual retaliation by Plastic Duck (go back and read the less than half dozen articles on this subect in a year in the Herald and my blog and get a clue about this).

So he reaches and grasps for the “pay back time” he thinks is deserved against me for printing a falsehood about the ESC — a story that was given me either mistakenly or even maliciously by a source, a source paid to lie to journalists, about something which still remains murky — a story in which Plastic Duck’s and W-HAT’s role is not at all unrelated.

After all, do YOU know who made copybot? Well? And can you see that in fact someone did make it for a client and did expect to get commercial gain from it and did maliciously use it to intimidate others and laugh at their expense? Well?

So…digging up what could be gleaned on this important story, trying to publish it in good faith — this is deserving of having your child called at home and pestered to link your RL name and number and account…so that your ID can also be stolen and used on a griefing account? Hello? For shame. For SHAME.

Ultimately, the showing that Cristiano made here is to the good, because it’s yet another example of why my crusade against him and his clique has been the right thing to do.

As for the Cory townhall, Gwyn did not ask my question. What in fact happened is that my question was reiterated by Cory himself, and he said “Excellent question”. My questions and responses remain on the blog itself — if they were the trolling things everyone imagines, they’d be removed. In fact, my comments were echoed by a half dozen others, and the pro-libslers in the thread were stooping to falsely calling me a Republican, etc. etc. — actions that were far more worthy of a ban. I raised the very legitimate question about the transcripts published on Cristiano’s own sluniverse.com which spelled out the immorality around the creation of deployment of the copybot, and the continued Linden support of this group even when people like Adam Zaius left the group and disassociated themselves with its public face at least. This is the right question to be asking, and I shouldn’t be the only one asking — and indeed I wasn’t, but the others asking aren’t as prominent.

Cory answered it by saying that they couldn’t send libsecondlife to the “dark nets”. Oh? So *I* can be sent to the dark nets for *asking the question*??? All that happened is that Torley, who is gunshy on anything that seems “negative” moved to ban me. She did this unilaterally. Other Lindens don’t second-guess each other in their “distributive decision-making process”. So another case of selective and biased prosecution went down once again. This isn’t good for the rule of law in the metaverse; it could well happen to Cristiano and nearly did the time he talked about an exploit. Gloating about anybody getting speciously banned from the forums is never a good idea; and the notion that you can keep Second Life a happy little tree place is just plain ridiculous — there’s much that isn’t happy there and it’s fine to be talking about it.

The anonymous “Thunderclap” ultimately endorses the concept that I should be *assaulted or even murdered in real life* (”someone will make her”) for my writings. That’s sick. You can’t have a free world that way. It’s wrong.

I resist.
Thunderclap says:

January 2, 2007 at 12:07 am

Hmm, There are many things I could say. The point I was making is that you started a series of actions by be vociferous on the blog and else to the point that you got baned everywhere that has a TOS save your own blog.
AS for Thunderclap, that my trademark. Its the name of my 10yr internet company, my website and I use to identify myself online as there are at least 6 people in RL that have the exact same name as me, one of which has a grammy.
I unlike most everyone respect your intellect and don’t support griefing in any form. Nor what Plastic duck being right. it wasn’t
However, I posted because, In my dealing with the internet most people don’t know the first thing about it, or its law. Hell, we have Ted Stevens of Alaska thinks its make of tubes. SO do you believe you can transfer that knowledge you gained at the UN to SL.
I think you do. I myself would love to myself. It isnt happening.
SL is controlled by the lindens and is populated by a vocal minority. I could care less about the numbers posted . Activity catchs my attention. Maybe there is an FIC. I know that I can’t change this. I know that you alone screaming into the wind can’t either. I don’t own an island. But I do pay (quarterly). Do I wish LL had their act together, yes. Do they? No. Cory was at least Honest. They are 20 people trying to do the same job Blizzard is. That is impossible. I know, Cory knows it and Phillip Rosdale knows it. Yes, what the W-hat did sucked. It was wrong. they got what they deserved.
But which would you rather have, no sl or this this sl?
Because at this point, those are the only two choices available. without Libsl it is entirely possible that sl would halt. 20 developers isn’t enough. Yes, copybot was wrong, but LL was caught, so they bailed.
I agree with Christiano and not Walker because actions have consequences. I have read your posts everywhere. I read your blog. And I still say that silence is better that venom. I can’t see your face, nor can you see mine. I have to take your words at face value and I see hatred flow from them. Where is comes from I know not. But for someone who is an accomplished author, works for justice in the UN and speaks at least 2 languages, I know you have a better vocabulary than expletives.
I still believe the best course is silence. You use expletives to defend yourself, you make false assumptions when they are none, (the aforementioned ‘Thunderclap’ remark) people are going to get angry and retaliate. Is it right or civil? No. But it will happen. I for one don’t wish you dead. I don’t even know you aside from your posts and the flaming that surrounds anything outside of tour blog.
That brings me to the Libel. You know you have no case because they will want all the forum posts and if he is smart all he has to do is go to SC and the many other places and pull them.
I believe I have come full circle. I see it this way. Someone set you off and you attacked. They flamed back. Others joined in and got flamed as well. Now you have a rep for hating on everyone, and everyone hates on you because you hated on everyone for hating on you. So Plastic duck escalated it. And in SC your address is posted. All wrong things. Silence breaks this. Otherwise the chain will continue until either you leave or they do. (Or sl dies)

Finally, Thunderclap comes from the Japanese anime ‘Sailor Moon’. In the first season episode where Sailor Jupiter, was introduced, her first spell (call, word of power etc.) was ‘Supreme Thunder. The second was Thunderclap zap.
And if you go to my website, you will see that Thunderclap references Psalms 29 and the custom made icons. (my trademark)
I use the volleyball as a personal sigil because SL is personal to me.

Oh if you wrote that article on 9/11 where you rode the subway, it was good. I was on a roof in Brooklyn that day, photographing the event. Also on my website.
http://supreme_thunder.tripod.com

Happy 2007 the year of the open door. May this be the year everyone receives what reward they have earned.
Anymore comments can be directed at my email on Gmail. Use my name. Thanks.
Prokofy Neva says:

January 2, 2007 at 12:25 am

Has it occurred to you that these little cliques and forums with highly selective and subjective enforcement of the TOS are places that, if you get banned from them, might be wrong themselves, and you might be right? Obviously I’m not banned from the Herald…or the New York Times ROFL.

Why should I follow your skewed, wrong-way telescopic view of Second Life, the Lindens, and the metaverse, and consider that the entire thing should be run by one company and their pets? Even that company doesn’t say that; even their pets, the better pets anyway, don’t say that. So you’re way off the mark. There won’t be this little feted clique for ever. Your slavishness in trying to stay in on its good side will count for naught.

No, actions don’t have consequences that are not related to them logically, and are criminal in nature. I’m with Andrea Dworkin on this one. She made the very salient point that a female co-ed who gets drunk and goes into a male student’s dorm room at night and then is raped, isn’t “asking for it” and isn’t deserving of rape. She deserves a hangover; she doesn’t deserve rape. And that’s the point. If you criticize a griefing group in SL, it’s understood that if you don’t live under the omerta about such groups, they may retaliate and grief you more inworld. But to go out into RL goes far beyond the confines of what THEY believe to be a game. THEY think it is all a video game, why take it to RL? Is that because they aren’t getting the reactions they need in SL, infantile creatures that they are?

And…why should we all be locked into this omerta and never discuss griefing and publicize it, make the connections, and report it to the Lindens with eventually having those individuals banned. I’m not getting this. Neither Johnny Ming, nor Cristiano Midnight, nor Walker Spaight, nor Torrid Midnight, could bring themselves to condemn what Plastic Duck does. They are like the radical chic hipsters of the 60s hanging out with the Black Panthers or the FLMN or the Weathermen and thinking there’s something thrilling about violence and something even cool. There isn’t. It’s a crime. It’s wrong. They are pandering to it, and enabling it by such actions.

I don’t use expletives unless they are used on me, first. Some of the outrageous things done to me, or condoned by people like Cristiano, sure as hell do get every expletive they deserve. Absolutely. I stand by it. It’s the only way. People only understand force when they are like that. They get a pushback from me.

I don’t believe in the ultimately fascistic form of Zen you preach, which seeks to place controls on others by powerful beings by making them be silent or inactive. There’s no reason for that. It’s not how to obtain justice — or peace. The peace of the graveyard is not peace.

Thunderclap may have all sorts of cute and lovely associations. So? It’s not a first and last name in Second Life, so I consider it an anonymous stone-throwing to make these remarks when you are unable to take responsibility for them. Shame on you.

Your notions of karma are merely your own beliefs. They don’t track. Where’s the karma? Plastic Duck is banned from SL and comes back on alt after alt, unable to establish a good reputation, an inventory, a business, a creative face. So that’s karma, if you’re going to believe in karma. Karma is also a fascistic notion — one that vindictive and vengeful people grab on to in order to gleefully deploy on others, usually with a half-assed, violent and stupid statement like “karma’s a bitch, isn’t it?” You’re a typical example of the treacly sentiments laced with actual violence and vengeance that pass for “Zen” on the Internet.
3pointD.com says:

January 2, 2007 at 11:18 am

SecondCast #48: Christmas Smackdown…

Episode 48 of SecondCast, our weekly podcast about Second Life, is now on the air. We cover Christmas presents and game consoles and get into some of the more interesting corporate initiatives in the virtual world of Second Life, including the Grid Rev…
Bart Simpson says:

January 2, 2007 at 2:19 pm

Prokofy, Eat my shorts man
Thunderclap says:

January 2, 2007 at 8:25 pm

Well, How can I respond to Karma is fascist? Hmm. Like this.
Fascism is not an ideology based on a core ideology, manifesto, or text. It is a political ideology and mass movement that seeks to place the nation, defined in exclusive biological, cultural, and/or historical terms, above all other sources of loyalty, and to create a mobilized national community. Many different characteristics are attributed to fascism by different scholars, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, authoritarianism, militarism, corporatism, anti-liberalism, and anti-communism.
And yet after posting the definition, what she said still makes no sense so it must be: Newspeak!
Newspeak, you may recall, has a special quality: It combines two ideas that, conventionally speaking, are virtual (if not precise) opposites, and presents them as identical — thereby nullifying the meaning contained in each word: “War is Peace.” “Ignorance is Strength.” “Freedom is Slavery.”

Newspeak serves two functions:

1) It deflates the opposition by nullifying its defining issues, and throws the nominal logic of the public debate into disarray.
2) It provides rhetorical and ontological cover for its speakers’ own activities and agenda.

Read for yourself, did I not make at least a semblance of rational sense? And my response the second time was Newspeak. And Walker now that she has kicked you again, are you going to let her get away with it?
When should Second Life Aggression Enter Real Life? at A Media Circus says:

January 4, 2007 at 8:02 am

[...] Listen to what the folks at Second Cast have to say [...]
Barry Joseph says:

January 11, 2007 at 10:04 am

Hey folks – great podcast as always. But I have to ask you to consider changing the title of the episode. I know the titles comes from offhand remarks made during the episode. That’s fun. But perhaps you don’t understand how insulting it is. Sure, Walker, who is Jewish, used it jokingly, as something he was mock-accusing you of calling him. He can say that. He’s a Jew. But this is not a Jewish show in the way that, say, the Daily Show is Jewish and Letterman (who is Jewish) is not.

Had Walker been black, and he said “lazy negro”, I can’t imagine you would used that for the title. Think about what the show looks like to someone who does NOT know it, and reviews the titles. Without any context for it, there is no ironic intention clear, and it is insulting.

Btw, I love Borat and collect Holocaust jokes, so no getting out by saying it’s just a joke. I know you all mean well but please consider changing the title to something like “Dirty Shirky”.

Also, next year if you want to ask questions to someone who knows something about Chanukah (no slight intended Walker), please let me know.

Btw, if you ever choose to do an episode on religion in SL, I can connect you with a teen minister in the teen grid who runs his own mission.

Keep up the good work!
jauani says:

January 12, 2007 at 2:12 am

“prok does not go around calling up people at home and harassing people.” – end of story.
Prokofy Neva says:

January 12, 2007 at 11:55 am

Thank you, Barry Joseph, I agree with you 100 percent. Second Cast and Second Life have gotten so cynical, so meta, so snorting, that they can name a podcast “Dirty Jew” and while some of us wince, we feel, well, can’t be dissin’ and hatin’ on people for their noir narf-narfing nihilism, now, can we. If we object to Walker, evidently Jewish in RL, calling himself a “Dirty Jew,” then we’re to be made to feel somehow unpolitically correct if we say, hey, could you re-title this? I mean, seriously. People just roaming around on the Internet will see it and think it’s ok to go around using the word “dirty Jew” now just because they’re noir narf-narfers.

But it’s not. And I’m to blame, too, distracted by my own issues with this podcast, for not seeing it.

I don’t know enough about Hanukkah to understand if it really is like camp-chairing, but since I had always understood Hanukkah to be something involving lighting candles and a sacred occasion like Christmas is supposed to be, I felt it was an odd reference and never fully explained.

This nasty podcast title is part of a whole culture of Second Cast that puts the most outrageous titles on their pods in order to grab attention. It’s rather obscene.

Barry seems to say that if Jewish comedians or Jewish shows or publications use self-deprecating terms, it’s ok. I agree with him that it is “more tolerable” because it’s in a setting where there are many social cues that let us know it is a style of humour.

But I wonder if even that is ok, not to get all politically correct or anything.
Barry Joseph says:

January 12, 2007 at 1:58 pm

Prokofy, Woah! We agree on something. How interesting. And yeah, I think self-deprecating humor is often fine, from a political standpoint, as an attempt to reclaim or define hate speech. I have no problem there. It’s all a question of context. I KNOW SecondCast is not intentionally trying to be insulting (well, not in this case) – they mean to be ironic – but the context of the title is not necessarily an ironic context, and therein lies my trouble with it, both politically and emotionally. And, at the same time, I fully trust this concerns will be considered, as I respect them and they have earned this trust.

Oh, and I thought comparing Hanukkah to camp-chairing was hilarious.
Stan Pomeray says:

January 14, 2007 at 7:36 am

Interesting. I have listened to every episode of Second Cast, and although there has been a reasonably large amount of crap spoken on a lot of the episodes, I think Mr.Midnight’s the “moral of the story” associated with this one, which basically says “You shouldn’t ever voice an opinion with which someone might disagree, because then they might come and harrass and intimidate your family, and you would have brought it on yourself” is without doubt the biggest load of bollocks I have yet had the misfortune to sit through.

But on the positive side, at least I won’t have to waste an hour a week listening to this drivel anymore.
Barry Joseph says:

January 17, 2007 at 11:17 am

Thanks for the disclaimer on the episode notes.
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Rez Nation Podcast Archive

SecondCast #48 – “Dirty Jew” [updated]

19 Responses to “SecondCast #48 – “Dirty Jew” [updated]”

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